Curse

Lewick · Jun 06, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59

I've played for a while now and while I love the game the social interactions in the game seem to really be limited. I've been trying to pinpoint the problem with it and the difficulty in expanding your social friendships for a while. I believe it comes down to a visibility issue.

The only time you interact with players outside your group is in town. Instancing provides a pretty significant wall of separation from everyone else in the game. The difficulty I'm having, which I've discussed with the few people I do play with in-game, is that I don't have any real social interactivity with people in the game because I have no context about them. I can start a group for a mission, for example, but the action is fast paced, and people really don't get to know each other doing the missions. So you run the mission then most of the time people go their own way afterward.

Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions. In games like Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, etc. the social interactions are dictated by the gameplay. In order to succeed in those games, you need to group. There isn't the concept of adding NPC henchmen to your group, so you have to find people to play with. The gameplay is slow enough that you end up forging friendships with people over time because you get to know their gaming styles, personalities, and skill levels. The social interaction is stemmed from needing to play with other players.

I really enjoy having the henchmen capability in the game, but I'm finding the lack of a good social climate to be stifling because people (including myself) can just take a whole slew of henchmen out and do their thing solo. Without specific "friend" channels, guild alliances with shared chats, and things like that, it makes it really hard to expand your friends base too far out.

My guild has 7 people in it. These are 7 people I've been gaming with for years, and we're all good gamers. However, when my guildmates aren't online, it's frustrating and difficult to forge new friendships and alliances with people. This is a problem I've never had in any other online game I've ever played.

Is anyone else having these issues? Or am I out in left field somewhere?

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 06, 2005, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Hiyas Lewick ~

I agree and concur with your opinion. I believe that the creation of a "Looking for Group" switch or icon would be a godsend in bustling towns and areas. This would also kill 98% of all the current spam and allow players to socially communicate with each other as well.

The current text box model needs some looking at as well. It is difficult to read most times, and the filters are too broad to seperate any meaningless banter from intelligent text.
It would be nice if your settings remained persistent from zone to zone as well - not resetting the moment you enter a new area!
Otherwise, I suggest a guild chat channel (already exists) and just get your friends in the habit of using that as a default.

May your skills prevail,

Talesin Darkbriar

Nokomis · Jun 06, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

I haven't played a lot of online games, but I did play Everquest for awhile. I think Guild Wars is a superior game to Everquest, but the social life was better in Everquest. People communicated more and seemed...dare I say...smarter and more creative. Maybe it was because less people were online then. I don't think it is because this game is free because I have played completely free games where people were friendlier and brighter overall than this lot (present company excepted I am sure).

--Nokomis

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 06, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

lol~!
Sad but true Nokomis...of all the games I've played online, GW unfortunately seems to have the lowest common denominator. The NPCs truly are better players than most of the server...
Fear not however, I suspect in a few weeks this current crop of "tardlings" will simply migrate to the next release of whatever.

Ytrill · Jun 06, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

I completely agree with this post. I have no social interaction whatsoever in this game outside of my guild. In pickup groups, most people are idiots who I really don't want to talk to, or the group is too good to have time to talk. Something needs to be done, soon. Maybe have a trade/lounge sort of area like the bazaar was in everquest. Where you can go into /trader mode and people can browse your items (like a merchant.) This eliminates trade spam problem. And maybe a toolbar so where you press key X and a tool comes up that allows you to search for an item by category/class/type etc. LFG icon is a must. This turns thiry LFG spams into one and a /lfg tag. The social interaction...I have no idea how to fix this if areanet has a single group map for everyone in the game...Personally I think it's unbelievably stupid not to have open zones outside of missions. Where you can find a group, killing for exp. is probably the only way I made friends in other RPGs.

Rieselle · Jun 07, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

I agree with the OP in that its rare to have any social interaction in this game, and it's hard to find like-minded people to talk to etc.

First of all I'd like to see normal chat severly restricted in range. You can only hear people who are in a very small radius around you. (almost adjacent). What I want to see in towns are little groups of people standing and sitting around in circles and stuff, kind of like a Real Life beach or park

I think the slight feeling of "privacy" would encourage more people to chat in the game. And if they start wanting proper privacy, they can group or use whispers. It'd be cool to wander around town and see what people are talking about and stuff too

The All channel can then be left in as a "Shout" channel - which most people can turn off :P So you can have conversations without exposing yourself to spam. This might lead to griefers who chase people around harassing them or eavesdropping on them, so maybe more features for Ignore would be necessary as well.

I think the best course ANet has is to take advantage of the stark dichotomy of their game - Instanced fighting vs. Towns as meeting places.

They should look some of the game related timesinks outside the game and try to add one or two of them into the towns - for example, some people undoubtedly spend some time looking at Trading forums like RPGTraders to buy stuff. Adding an auction system or trading post system, that people can browse whilst in town. Make the interface such that you can easily browse through the items, whilst talking to people at the same time.

Also, since the game is so heavily reliant on team strategy, we need more options to help us discuss it in game. A "show my character's build to this player" command, that lets them see what gear, atts, and skills you have equipped, for instance.

A "party play book", where you can place labels for the different members of the party and draw diagrams and stuff (like the wonderful minimap now

. The "party play book" should also allow people who have seen a map to show it to others and draw on it. (this includes maps for the pvp areas). So before a mission or a pvp/gvg fight you can take a look at the map, and discuss where you are going to go, who does what and when, etc. All with cute diagrams and annotations

The "party play book" should also allow people to post their stats and skills on it, so you can take an overview of what everyone's abilities are etc. (you can choose not to post your stats if for some reason you dont want people to see.)

BrandonIT · Jun 07, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I've lamented the chat bubble system in GW before, so I'll just say I support a better chat bubble.

An ability to show others your setup, or possibly even skill and attribute list would be quite helpful. At the moment, I'd settle for something as simple as an "examine" window on others.

Here's hoping this could be implemented at some point without a lot of trouble.

Jab · Jun 07, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

I agree completely here, City of heroes beats guilds wars into the ground with better lfg features, and that game isn't about GvG or competitive gaming. They really need to allow teams to stay together cross district, hell maybe even cross town or some are in mission and some are still in town.

Night Daftshadow · Jun 07, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

I hope ANet implements a feature to see everyones current profession as well as level in towns that DO NOT have missions, only quests. You can see professions and levels at towns with mission but not vice-versa. What's up with that?

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 07, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

I agree with the lack of social interaction, but i also beleive it is unfair to compare it toother MMORPG's, simply put GW is nothing like the freeroaming MMORPG with monthly fee's. i.e. you dont wander of explore bump into someone and go hey this bits tricky we'd better join forces and there is nobody else here unless we trek back for 30-30-45min.
GW has single stop chat rooms to formparties, alas, this ends up like a overcrowded pub, with many players shouting, it is often hard to make out what people are actually saying, and even harder to have a conversation. The only way to do this is like in a pub, you chat to those you are with (party talk) or you whisper people, alas whispering doesn't always work as it can be drowned out with all the other chat going on.
Most MMORPG's have the option to filter and have multiple chat windows. This option may make it easier in the long run.

Galatea · Jun 07, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

A LFG option would really, really help cut back on spam, and would make things much easier for party-builders to actually form parties.

I do like how, in mission cities & tombs, you can see the profession & level of a character -- however, maybe there should be a toggle?

Rather than implement a separate "I'M LFG" option, maybe just have it so that people whose professions/levels showing ARE seeking, and those who don't have it shown are NOT seeking. Sometimes, I am just standing around in a mission city, perhaps doing the bonus missions by myself, getting ready to do an old quest, whatever.. I will be level 20 in a low-level area with TONS of level 4 characters sending me invites, or sending me /whispers with "WE NEED AN ELEMENTALIST. JOIN US." I'm an ascended level 20 who has beat the last mission - I don't belong in their groups.

To be able to just toggle my E/Me 20 from showing, that should maybe get the message straight that I am NOT searching for a group.

-----

But, if they do add options.. perhaps, have a drop-down menu to include options like "Looking for Group" and "Unavailable". Then, include next to the drop-down menu, a small text-box (with a character limit) to include details..

So, if I select "Looking for Group", I may want to type what KIND of elementalist I am, or what I am looking for a in group.. example, "Fire Ele, need grp with 2 monks for bonus only."

Or, if I select "Unavailable", then I could type "Please no invites, I'm afk.", "AFK - Eating lunch.", "Please no invites, I am not doing the mission.", etc.. and upon sending an invite to a person with this Unavailable option, instead this message would be returned to them.

Inziladun · Jun 07, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Yeah, I agree. In many Online RPGs (SWG, WoW, EQ ect.), i've just walked up to a group of people sitting around talking and said 'Hey, what are you guys talking about?' without even knowing them. In Guild Wars, I havn't even seen a bunch of people sitting around talking. I think there's a few problems that causes this, one being that there's no 'local' chat, where only people next to you can hear you. And also, the Towns arn't very 'gather friendly'. You can't walk into buildings and sit down, you can't gather around in a 'private' area. In fact, I can only think of two town areas that can be considered 'private', the Lighthouse at Lion's Arch and the Beacon at Beacon's Perch. Of course there's more reasons, but I can't think of them at the moment, and I have to go soon anyways :P

ElevenBravo · Jun 07, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

In Guild Wars, I havn't even seen a bunch of people sitting around talking.

Thats because they are busy playing. Personally if I wanted to talk I would get on IRC. Guild Wars is too fast action to be chatting it up in local chat or whatever. I believe, like in my guild for instance, most talking is going on in voice programs like Ventrilo or Teamspeak. I very very rarely look at my chat window unless its a whisper or someone is talking in guild chat. Even when I am in a town. In mission towns I try to avoid people, non-guildmates, like the plague. I find that henchmen teams are way more efficent then dealing with players who dont know what they are doing. And my play time is vaulable so I dont have alot of time to be shooting the breeze with just anybody.

I dont think their needs to be a LFG feature because there already is one. Your party window tells you when someone wants you to join their group. If you want to start a group just start inviting people. If you want to join a group find a group leader and invite yourself.

Lewick · Jun 07, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElevenBravo

Thats because they are busy playing. Personally if I wanted to talk I would get on IRC. Guild Wars is too fast action to be chatting it up in local chat or whatever. I believe, like in my guild for instance, most talking is going on in voice programs like Ventrilo or Teamspeak. I very very rarely look at my chat window unless its a whisper or someone is talking in guild chat. Even when I am in a town. In mission towns I try to avoid people, non-guildmates, like the plague. I find that henchmen teams are way more efficent then dealing with players who dont know what they are doing. And my play time is vaulable so I dont have alot of time to be shooting the breeze with just anybody.

I dont think their needs to be a LFG feature because there already is one. Your party window tells you when someone wants you to join their group. If you want to start a group just start inviting people. If you want to join a group find a group leader and invite yourself.

So where did you meet your guild? At some point in time, you made friends with someone, be it another game or in real life, and those friendships carried over into Guild Wars.

Also, you'd be amazed by the skill of SOME of the people there are out playing the game. Unfortunately they're hard to find because there's no real social infrastructure in which to connect those people together.

As far as your LFG comments are concerned, you can randomly select people and invite them to join your group. But if they're AFK or not interested in grouping, it'll either get rejected or just stay hanging out there as an invite forever. The LFG option would be someone actively requesting to join a group. I think it's a really good idea too, and one I didn't think about. It allows people to see who's ready and willing to play and get them in the game with humans. It would also greatly decrease the overall LFG spam in mission zones and would allow people like me, who turns off local chat when I enter mission zones due to the large amount of spam that occurs, to turn it back on and have a listen.

I agree with you about henchmen. Henchmen will follow every order you give (except Alesia, whom you sometimes yell at to heal you while she's meleeing and rarely listens.) I've been both unfortunate and fortunate with pickup groups. I've had really bad ones (it's hard to beat Thunderhead Keep with 6 rangers, especially when your leader quits in the first 15 seconds of the mission) and I've had good ones. I'll say this though: I prefer playing with humans. It makes the game much more enjoyable for me.

Rieselle · Jun 08, 2005, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewick

I'll say this though: I prefer playing with humans. It makes the game much more enjoyable for me.

Yes, me too. And I like a bit of communication with the people I'm playing, sometimes too. It's fun to come up with a plan for an encounter and then execute it to perfection.

Mr. Dawg · Jun 08, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

maybe less focus on npc given missions and quests, and more on exploration would sort out the social limitations a bit. there's too much "anyone want to do quest x" and not enough "let's see what we can find". i dunno how that change could happen though, if it would be beneficial

DrSLUGFly · Jun 08, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

This is a great thread! Fully supported by both Grenth and me (I speak on his behalf... but if perchance you meet him best not mention my name, I beat him at poker last Saturday and he's pretty pissed at me).

I like the chat bubble idea, if it's what I think it is. When we chat we can see a speech bubble over our heads. I'd like to see this be bigger for people closer to you, sort of like audio distance.

one side of Ascalon to the other = "I like..."
Ascalon Xunlai to the bottom of the hill = "I like the chat bubble idea, if..."
a few meters apart = "I like...<-->...be bigger for people closer to you..."

it would make it feel more like chatting with your partner. I'd also like to see interactive emotes.

/hug
Dr Slugfly offers you a hug
/hugback
Mr. Dawg hugs Dr Slugfly
as well as /poke, /leapfrog, and other things... and perhaps some emotes that would be more useful in the feild as well.

Galatea · Jun 08, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Dawg

maybe less focus on npc given missions and quests, and more on exploration would sort out the social limitations a bit. there's too much "anyone want to do quest x" and not enough "let's see what we can find". i dunno how that change could happen though, if it would be beneficial

I sometimes go exploring on my own, or with a guild member, just to see what's out there, even if there are no quests that bring me to a zone. There is some really nice artwork in this game.

Perhaps, to introduce more exploring, place more Quest-Giving NPC's in explorable areas, or mini-towns where the NPCs have some story-telling to do (sort of like the mini-town of the Ascalon Settlement).

Something I kind of miss from other games is seeing other parties in explorable areas. It gets kind of lonely, being in large enemy-infested spaces by yourself. Even with your party members, it feels empty. It's strange when going solo, seeing many people run out of a zone, and then running after them to find nobody.

The downside of this is that it might produce too much lag - for everybody. However, having shared explorable areas definitely kept the social aspect of the game up. Example, in FFXI, while resting HP/MP in-between fights, I would quickly run over to another party and just sort of mingle, maybe /wave (or /panic -- I had a Taru, and no one could resist the /panic lol). Or (and please don't shoot me for mentioning this game, as I know it can be a touchy subject), I played the WoW final beta with my younger sister (I didn't like it enough to buy it and spend a monthly fee). Whenever I saw her fighting (not in a party, because I wanted her to gain as much xp as possible), I would randomly run over to her and /cheer her on.

I don't want to throw out what the game already has. I love having my personal fighting area most of the time. Everything loads quickly, I don't have to worry about some ass trying to go after the same kill as me, etc..

But maybe, they could introduce one or two explorable areas that allow a n amount of people in. And set districts, so once District 1 of 15 people is full, then District 2 would open, etc. Maybe these areas could have quest-giving NPC's in the explorable areas, with quests to be finished within the area .. kind of like Fissue of Woe. Maybe even, there could be a fee to enter these areas, or they could be accessed through one of the statues.

Mr. Dawg · Jun 08, 2005, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Perhaps, to introduce more exploring, place more Quest-Giving NPC's in explorable areas, or mini-towns where the NPCs have some story-telling to do (sort of like the mini-town of the Ascalon Settlement).

yeah, NPCs not in 'safe' areas would help. also, NPCs who don't necessarily give a quest, but give information which can follow, or just ignore. following it may lead to a great reward, but there's no mini-map arrow, you just gotta explore.

multiple party fighting areas would be good and bad. good, as it would be more sociable, and helpful. but bad as it would be laggy, probably result in camping, and the party size may not be big enough for the possiblity of merged parties. districted fighting areas... nice idea..

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSLUGFly

it would make it feel more like chatting with your partner. I'd also like to see interactive emotes.

/hug
Dr Slugfly offers you a hug
/hugback
Mr. Dawg hugs Dr Slugfly
as well as /poke, /leapfrog, and other things... and perhaps some emotes that would be more useful in the feild as well.

and emotes with sounds.... so when you say "/laugh" you can hear Mr. Dawg and Dr Slugfly laugh heartily. characters could have soundsets, chosen at creation, to add a little bit more.... character, to them

Galatea · Jun 08, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Dawg

yeah, NPCs not in 'safe' areas would help. also, NPCs who don't necessarily give a quest, but give information which can follow, or just ignore. following it may lead to a great reward, but there's no mini-map arrow, you just gotta explore.

multiple party fighting areas would be good and bad. good, as it would be more sociable, and helpful. but bad as it would be laggy, probably result in camping, and the party size may not be big enough for the possiblity of merged parties. districted fighting areas... nice idea..

and emotes with sounds.... so when you say "/laugh" you can hear Mr. Dawg and Dr Slugfly laugh heartily. characters could have soundsets, chosen at creation, to add a little bit more.... character, to them

Yeah, the bad side is the lag and camping. Camping only works if you are continously leveling, and the monsters respawn. However, with districts on certain said fighting areas, and a limit as to how many people can be in each district, then lag won't be as bad.

I like the idea of sounds of /laughs on characters. Maybe also include a toggle for emote sounds, so people who continuously /laugh won't annoy other people.